[MUSIC] >> Bonnie: HELLO.

I AM BONNIE ERBE.

WELCOME TO "TO THE CONTRARY", A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

THIS WEEK, ADVANCING EQUITY AND EQUALITY AT HOME AND ABROAD.

THAT IS THE ROLE OF THE WHITE HOUSE GENDER POLICY COUNCIL.

JOINING ME NOW ARE WOMEN THOUGHT LEADERS JENNIFER KLEIN AND JULISSA REYNOSO, WHO COCHAIR THE COUNCIL.

SO WELCOME, LADIES.

STARTING WITH YOU, JENNIFER, WHAT IS EACH OF YOUR ROLES ON THE COUNCIL?

>> Jennifer: SO NICE TO BE HERE WITH YOU.

THINGS FOR HAVING US.

MY NAME IS JEN KLEIN, AS YOU HEARD, AND I AM THE CO CHAIR WITH JULISSA AS WELL, AS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR.

I SORT OF RUN THE DAY TO DAY OPERATIONS OF THE COUNCIL, BECAUSE AS HE WILL HERE IN A MINUTE, JULISSA HAS ANOTHER -- AT LEAST ONE OF A FULL-TIME JOB.

>> Julissa: SO I AM A CULTURE WITH JEN AND IT'S REALLY GREAT TO BE HERE.

AND COCHAIR OF GENDER POLICY COUNCIL AND I AM THE CHIEF OF STAFF TO DR. JILL BIDEN, THE FIRST LADY.

>> Bonnie: YOU ALL HAVE BRIEFLY THE DIRECTIVES THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN SENT OUT SENT OUT WHEN HE ISSUED AND ANNOUNCED THE FORMATION OF THE GENDER COUNCIL.

YOU TWO HAVE 20, 30 JOBS EACH, I WOULD IMAGINE, FULL-TIME JOBS, THAT IS.

AND YOU HAVE AT YOUR DISPOSAL JUST ABOUT ALL OF THE MEMBERS OF THE BITING CABINET TO ACHIEVE WHAT YOU WANT TO ACHIEVE.

WHAT IS THE MAIN GOAL OF THE COUNCIL?

AND IS IT ACHIEVABLE IN FOUR YEARS?

>> Jennifer: THE MAIN GOAL OF THE COUNCIL IS REALLY THE MANDATE, WHICH IS TO ENSURE THAT GENDER EQUITY AND GENDER EQUALITY ARE PRIORITIZED THROUGHOUT THE WORK OF THIS ADMINISTRATION, IN BOTH DOMESTIC AND GLOBAL POLICY.

AND AS YOU SAID, THAT'S A BIG JOB.

WHAT HAS BEEN, YOU KNOW, COMMUNICATED AND REALLY LIVED THROUGH THIS COUNCIL IS THAT SENSE OF PRIORITY.

I MEAN, THE FACT THAT THE PRESIDENT ON INTERNATIONAL WOMEN'S DAY CREATED THIS COUNCIL WITH SUCH A BIG MANDATE, I THINK IT'S TESTAMENT TO THE PRIORITY THAT NOT ONLY HE AND THE VICE PRESIDENT, BUT AT REALLY EVERYONE IN THE ADMINISTRATION PLACES ON GENDER EQUITY AND GENDER EQUALITY.

AND, YOU KNOW, THE REASON THAT HAVING A COUNCIL IS SO IMPORTANT IS BECAUSE THAT REQUIRES BOTH A LASER FOCUS ON THE SET OF ISSUES, BUT ALSO TO BE SURE THAT THEY ARE INTEGRATED THROUGHOUT THE RANGE OF A REALLY EVERY ISSUE THAT IS FACING THIS ADMINISTRATION AND OUR COUNTRY TODAY, WHICH IS WHY AS YOU POINT OUT, REALLY, WE HAVE VIRTUALLY EVERY CABINET SECRETARY AND AGENCY HEAD AS PART OF THE COUNCIL AND WHY JULISSA AND I ON A DAILY BASIS WORK VERY CLOSELY WITH OUR COUNTERPARTS AND ALL THE WHITE HOUSE OFFICES, INCLUDING THE OTHER POLICY COUNCILS, THE DOMESTIC POLICY COUNCIL, THE NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL, THE CLIMATE COUNCIL AND THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL.

>> Julissa: THE PURPOSE OF THE COUNCIL, AS YOU KNOW, IS NEWLY CREATED, TO REALLY HAVE A WHOLE GOVERNMENT APPROACH TO PROMOTING EQUITY AND EQUALITY.

AND TO DO THAT, WE HAVE TO TOUCH EVERY AGENCY, BIG AND SMALL, EVERY FEDERAL AGENCY BIG AND SMALL IN THE WAY IT DELIBERATES THE WAY IT ADMINISTERS THE WAY IT DEVELOPS THE POLICY.

SO THE WHITE HOUSE HAS THIS TREMENDOUS CONVENING POWER TO DO THAT.

AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE HOUSE AT THE AT THE WHITE HOUSE AND WHY WE HAVE A FORMAL COUNCIL ESTABLISHED BY THIS EXECUTIVE ORDER THAT REPORTS DIRECTLY TO THE PRESIDENT.

AND SO IT GIVES US TREMENDOUS ACCESS TO ALL THE DIFFERENT AGENCIES LEADERSHIP OF THOSE AGENCIES TO ENSURE THAT IT IS --EQUITY AND EQUALITY ARE INTEGRATED INTO THEIR DAILY, DAY-TO-DAY PRACTICE.

IT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT THE STITCHES LIKELY WILL TAKE TIME IT'S A PROCESS THAT IS QUITE EXTENSIVE AND REQUIRES A WHOLE LOT OF COORDINATION IN ADMINISTERING.

AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, SOME AGENCIES ARE MORE DEVELOPED THAN OTHERS, BUT WE ARE -- WE HAVE RECEIVED TREMENDOUS COMMITMENT FROM ALL FEDERAL AGENCIES INVOLVED AND WE ARE VERY EXCITED BY THE OPPORTUNITY.

>> Bonnie: NOW, PRESIDENT OBAMA HAD A SIMILAR COUNCIL, OF COURSE PRESIDENT TRUMP ABOLISHED IT.

BUT HOW IS YOUR MANDATE DIFFERENT, IF AT ALL, FROM PER OBAMA'S COUNCIL?

>> Jennifer: IT REALLY BUILDS BUILDS OFF THE WHITE HOUSE COUNCIL ON WOMEN AND GIRLS THAT WAS CREATED DURING THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION AND I WOULD SAY OTHER ITERATIONS THAT CAME BEFORE IT.

I, FOR ONE, WORKED IN THE FIRST LADY'S OFFICE IN THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION FOR THEN FIRST LADY LAURIE RODHAM CLINTON.

AND IN OUR OFFICE, IN ADDITION TO THE WHITE HOUSE INITIATIVE ON WOMEN AND GIRLS, FULFILLED MUCH OF THE SAME PURPOSE.

SO I WOULD SAY THAT THERE ARE PRECEDENTS THAT WE ARE BUILDING OFF OF THAT CAME BEFORE US.

I WILL ALSO SAY THAT AS YOU POINTED OUT, THIS ONE IS FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT IN A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT WAYS: THE FIRST IS THAT IT IS A STANDALONE COUNCIL, POLICY COUNCIL ON PAR WITH THE NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL, THE DOMESTIC POLICY COUNCIL, THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL, AS I SAID; SECOND OF ALL, THAT IS NOT AN ENGAGEMENT COUNCIL.

IN THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION, THE WHITE HOUSE COUNCIL ON WOMEN AND GIRLS WAS NESTLED WITHIN THE OFFICE OF PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT.

AND WHILE JULISSA AND I TAKE VERY SERIOUSLY OUR ENGAGEMENT WITH EXTERNAL STAKEHOLDERS, AND THAT'S EVERYTHING FROM ADVOCACY ORGANIZATIONS, CIVIL SOCIETY TO OTHER GOVERNMENTS TO MULTILATERAL ORGANIZATIONS, TO TRIBAL AND STATE GOVERNMENTS AS WELL, WE ARE A BASE OF POLICY COUNCIL WITH VERY CLEAR POLICY GOALS.

AND I GUESS THE OTHER THING, WHICH I NOTED BEFORE BUT REALLY DOES DIFFERENTIATE FROM THIS COUNCIL IS THAT WE ARE BOTH FOCUS GLOBALLY AND DOMESTICALLY.

>> Bonnie: WE OF COURSE -- THE SHOW HAS BEEN ON THE AIR FOR 30 YEARS AND RECOVERED SENATOR AND THEN SECRETARY CLINTON AND THEN CANDIDATE CLINTON VERY CLOSELY.

I REMEMBER SHE DID A TRIP WITH OUR EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, CARI STEIN, WENT DOWN TO SOUTH AMERICA WITH HER ON -- AND SHE WAS THEN SECRETARY OF STATE AND SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT HOW HER, HER DEPARTMENT OF STATE IS LOOKING AT EVERY INTERNATIONAL TREATY THAT WE SIGNED AND MAKING SURE THAT IT WAS GENDER -- IT ACHIEVED GENDER PARITY.

>> Julissa: SECRETARY CLINTON WAS, YOU KNOW, EXTRAORDINARY IN MANY WAYS, AND SHE WAS -- WHEN SHE WAS SECRETARY OF STATE.

I WORKED FOR HER IN THAT OFFICE THAT SHE HELPED BUILD AND BLOSSOM IS STILL THERE AND INFORMALLY PURSUING A VERY STRATEGIC AND HOLISTIC WAY THAT OUR FOREIGN POLICY INTEGRATES EQUITY, GENDER EQUITY AND EQUALITY IN ITS, AND IT'S POLICY DEVELOPMENT IMPLEMENTATION, RIGHT, AND ALSO THE ASSISTANCE PART AS WELL.

OBVIOUSLY, DURING THE PRIOR ADMINISTRATION, THAT OFFICE SUFFERED.

BUT IT IS STILL THERE AND PRESENT AND WE WILL WORK VERY CLOSELY WITH THAT OFFICE TO ENSURE THAT SECRETARY CLINTON'S VISION IS VERY MUCH ALIVE.

>> Bonnie: GIVE ME A FOR INSTANCE, IF YOU WOULD NOT MIND, JULISSA.

YOU SAY THAT YOU ARE FOLLOWING SECRETARY -- THEN SECRETARY CLINTON'S LEAD ON TRADE AGREEMENTS.

WHAT IF SOMEONE DEVELOPING COUNTRY, AND LET'S FACE IT, DEVELOPING COUNTRIES ARE LESS FORWARD-LOOKING ON WOMEN'S ISSUES THAN MOST DEVELOPED NATIONS BECAUSE WOMEN HAVE SO MUCH LESS POWER IN THOSE IN, YOU KNOW, POVERTY-STRICKEN COUNTRIES.

BUT WHAT IF SOME LEADERS SAYS I'M NOT DOING THIS TRADE AGREEMENT IF YOU MAKE ME MAKE SURE THAT WOMEN GET HALF OF, YOU KNOW, THEIR FAIR SHARE OF ALL CONTRACTS THAT WE LET AS A RESULT OF THIS TRADE AGREEMENT?

WHAT DO YOU DO?

>> Julissa: WE OBVIOUSLY HAVE GOALS TO DO THAT.

WE CAN'T ALWAYS GET TO FULL PARITY IN ALL THESE DIFFERENT AGREEMENTS, BUT WE ARE -- -- WE DEFINITELY KEEP PURSUING, RIGHT?

AND OBVIOUSLY SOME NEGOTIATIONS ARE EASIER THAN OTHERS.

BUT THAT'S WHY WE HAVE SUCH AN IMPORTANT CORE OF DIPLOMATS, TO ENSURE THAT WE KEEP RAISING THESE CONCERNS AND THE GENDER, GENDER PARITY QUESTION AT EVERY POSSIBILITY, IN EVERY POSSIBLE WAY AND THEN EVERY PLATFORM THAT WE HAVE.

ALSO, OBVIOUSLY WITH AMBASSADOR THOMAS GREENFIELD AT THE UN, IS ALSO BEEN INCREDIBLY CLEAR AND ACTIVE IN PURSUING THESE ISSUES AS WELL.

SO IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, EASY.

THAT IS WHY WE HAVE THE TYPES OF DIPLOMATIC EFFORTS THAT WE HAVE.

BUT IT'S DEFINITELY A PRIORITY OF THIS ADMINISTRATION ENSURING THAT THESE, THAT THE GENDER EQUITY AND INCLUSION AND EQUALITY AS PART OF OUR OVERALL STRATEGY AND DISCUSSION WITH EVERY POSSIBLE NEGOTIATION, EVERY POSSIBLE PLATFORM THAT WE HAVE ACCESS TO.

>> Jennifer: I WOULD ALSO ADD, YOU KNOW, TWO OTHER POINTS: FIRST, REPRESENTATION MATTERS, AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK, YOU KNOW, HAS BEEN REMARKABLE THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION IS THE APPOINTMENT ONLY AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS, ALTHOUGH CERTAINLY AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS, BUT REALLY THROUGHOUT ALL THE APPOINTMENTS OF A REALLY DIVERSE IN SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS, APPOINTMENTS OF PERSONNEL REALLY, AS I SAID, AT ALL LEVELS.

SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, THAT MATTERS IN OUR APPROACH; THE SECOND THING I WILL SAY IS THAT, YOU KNOW, PART OF WHAT THIS COUNCIL IS MEANT TO DO -- AND WE ARE JUST GETTING STARTED -- BUT ONE OF THE THINGS WE ARE WORKING ON RIGHT NOW IS STRATEGY, WHICH REALLY WILL HELP GUIDE THE WORK OF THE ADMINISTRATION, INTEGRATING GENDER.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, YOUR EXAMPLE OF THE TRADE AGREEMENT, BUT REALLY THROUGHOUT THE WORK.

SO AS WE THINK ABOUT HOW WE PLAN, HOW WE BUDGET, HOW WE TRAIN OUR EMPLOYEES AND REALLY HOW WE MEASURE OUR SUCCESS WILL BE HELPING VARIOUS AGENCIES INCLUDING THE WHITE HOUSE TO THINK ABOUT HOW YOU THINK ABOUT GENDER WHEN YOU ARE DOING ALL OF THOSE THINGS.

BY THE WAY, OTHER FORMS OF EQUITY AS WELL, BECAUSE OUR WORK IS REALLY DEEPLY INTEGRATED WITH THE FOCUS ON RACIAL EQUITY THAT ALSO PERVADES THIS ADMINISTRATION.

AND THEN THE LAST THING I WOULD SAY IS I TAKE A LITTLE ISSUE WITH YOUR QUESTION, BECAUSE I THINK THAT THE U.S., AND I THINK WE'VE LEARNED THIS OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS, IF WE DID NOT KNOW IT BEFORE, HAS A LOT TO WORK LEARN FROM OTHER COUNTRIES INCLUDING FROM DEVELOPING COUNTRIES.

YOU HAVE WOMEN HEADS OF STATE IN MANY COUNTRIES.WE'VE OBVIOUSLY NEVER HAD A WOMEN HEADED STATE.

ALTHOUGH WE'VE MADE A HUGE AMOUNT OF PROGRESS MOVING FORWARD WITH A WOMAN WITH A VICE PRESIDENT THIS TIME.

BUT MY ONLY POINT IS THAT OUR COUNCIL IS ALSO VERY OUTWARD LOOKING AS WELL, BECAUSE THERE ARE REALLY LESSONS AROUND THE WORLD WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT PAY EQUITY, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT CAREGIVING, RIGHT?

WE ARE ONE OF LITERALLY TWO COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD THAT DOES NOT HAVE ANY SORT OF PAID FAMILY AND MEDICAL LEAVE.

LET'S LOOK TO SOME, YOU KNOW, GREAT EXAMPLES AROUND THE WORLD ABOUT HOW WE CAN ACTUALLY IMPROVE -- INCREASE GENDER EQUITY RIGHT HERE AT HOME AS WELL.

>> Bonnie: FIRST I WANT TO ASK HOW INVOLVED YOU ARE WITH VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS.

HOW MUCH INPUT DOES SHE HAVE INTO WHAT YOU DO?

>> Julissa: WELL, WE COORDINATE REGULARLY WITH THE VICE PRESIDENT STAFF AND HER TEAM, AND SHE HAS BEEN THE VICE PRESIDENT, HAS BEEN QUITE ACTIVE ON THESE ISSUES, FROM SPEAKING TO THE UNITED NATIONS, RECENTLY TOURING, WORKING WITH US ON ISSUES INVOLVING , AGAIN, THE CAREGIVING, THE CAREGIVING ECONOMY IN THE INTERSECTIONAL QUESTIONS OF RACE AND GENDER THAT WE ARE VERY MUCH INVOLVED WITH AND IT, AN ISSUE THAT IS INTEGRAL TO THE EXECUTIVE ORDER THE PRESIDENT SIGNED, AND ALWAYS IS SOMETHING THAT SHE CARES DEEPLY ABOUT.

>> Jennifer: WE WORK CLOSELY WITH HER TEAM.

ACTUALLY, BOTH DOMESTICALLY AND ON FOREIGN POLICY ISSUES.

AND SHE IS, YOU KNOW, AS YOU HAVE SEEN, TAKEN A REALLY LEADING ROLE IN THINKING THAT WOMEN IN THE ECONOMY AND THE DEVASTATING EFFECTS THAT COVID HAS HAD ON WOMEN'S ECONOMIC SECURITY.

AND SO, WE ARE WORKING WITH HER IN HER ENTIRE TEAM REALLY CLOSELY ON THAT IN PARTICULAR.

>> Bonnie: WE ALL KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT COVID HAS HIT WOMEN WAY WORSE THAN MEN.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO BUFFER THAT, IF YOU CAN AT ALL?

AND ARE WOMEN GOING TO COME BACK AFTER THE COVID EPIDEMIC, ARE THEY GOING TO END UP MAKING MORE CLOSER TO WHAT MEN EARN?

>> Jennifer: YOU ARE SO RIGHT TO POINT OUT THE DEVASTATING EFFECTS OF COVID.

I WALK AROUND SAYING WE STARTED WITH A HEALTH CRISIS, THEN WE HAD AN ECONOMIC CRISIS, AND THEN ON TOP OF ALL OF THAT WE HAVE THE CAREGIVING CRISIS, AND THAT IS QUITE A TRIFECTA WHICH, AS YOU RIGHTFULLY POINT OUT, HAS AFFECTED EVERYONE THE THAT HAS IN PARTICULAR HAD A REALLY DIRE CONSEQUENCES FOR WOMEN.

AND, YOU KNOW, SO WHAT HAS THE ADMINISTRATION DONE STARTING WITH THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN?

RIGHT, SO THAT WAS AN EFFORT TO GET IMMEDIATE RELIEF TO FAMILIES IN THE FORM OF, OBVIOUSLY, SHOTS IN ARMS, KIDS BACK IN SCHOOL, DIRECT PAYMENTS TO FAMILIES WHO ARE SUFFERING ECONOMICALLY, AND ALL OF THAT IS IN PLACE AND REALLY WORKING.

AND I THINK DELIVERING IMMEDIATE RESULTS AND WE ARE SEEING THE RESULTS BEGIN TO TAKE EFFECT.

YOU KNOW, IT'S PROJECTED THAT 5 MILLION CHILDREN WILL BE LIFTED OUT OF POVERTY BASED ON THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN, AND THE AMERICAN JOBS PLAN AND THE AMERICAN FAMILIES PLAN, WHICH, AS YOU KNOW, THE PRESIDENT HAS SUBSEQUENTLY OPPOSED AND WE ARE WORKING HARD TO GET PAST AND WILL ONLY BUILD ON THAT.

YOU KNOW, AGAIN, YOU POINTED THIS OUT, BUT THERE ARE 3.7 MILLION FEWER WOMEN WORKING NOW THAN THERE WERE IN FEBRUARY 2020, WHICH ERODES MORE THAN 30 YEARS OF WOMEN'S LABOR FORCE PARTICIPATION AND ALSO RESULTED IN A LOSS OF ABOUT $64 BILLION IN WAGES AND ECONOMIC ACTIVITY PER YEAR.

SO THESE ARE REAL CONSEQUENCES FOR INDIVIDUALS.

THESE ARE ALSO REAL CONSEQUENCES FOR OUR ECONOMY.

AND THEN ON TOP OF THE WOMEN WHO HAVE ACTUALLY LEFT THE LABOR FORCE, EVEN MORE HAVE REDUCED THEIR HOURS.

AND THAT'S BECAUSE THEY ARE MANAGING REALLY PRECARIOUS JOB CONDITIONS AND ALSO MANAGING CHILD AND, AND OTHER CAREGIVING RESPONSIBILITIES.

SO, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, WE SEE THE REAL IMPACT ON PEOPLE, BUT AS I SAID, ALSO ON OUR ECONOMY.

AND WHAT WE'VE ALSO SEEN IS REALLY THE UNMASKING OF THE FRAGILITY OF OUR CAREGIVING SYSTEM IN THIS COUNTRY.

SO THAT'S WHY THE JOBS PLAN AND THE FAMILY PLAN REALLY BUILD ON THAT.

YOU KNOW, STARTING WITH THE JOBS PLAN, IT'S OBVIOUS HE DESIGNED TO, TO MODERNIZE SCHOOLS AND CHILDCARE FACILITIES BUT IT'S THE LARGEST INVESTMENT IN CHILDCARE SINCE WORLD WAR II.

IS ALSO DESIGNED TO REBUILD THE INFRASTRUCTURE OF THIS COUNTRY, AND THAT'S, AS WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, EVERYTHING FROM BRIDGES AND AIRPORTS TO HUMAN INFRASTRUCTURE.

SO THAT IS WHY IT INCLUDES A LARGE INVESTMENT IN HOME AND COMMUNITY-BASED CARE, SO THAT PEOPLE CAN ACCESS THE CARE THAT THEY NEED, THE HIGH QUALITY CARE FOR THEIR FAMILIES, AND ALSO THAT WE CAN SUPPORT THOSE JOBS, BECAUSE THOSE ARE JOBS THAT WOMEN, PARTICULARLY WOMEN OF COLOR HAVE, THAT HAVE HISTORICALLY BEEN JOBS THAT WERE LOST BUT ALSO JOBS THAT JUST DON'T GIVE THE ADEQUATE WAGES AND THE DIGNITY THAT PEOPLE NEED AND WANT IN THEIR JOBS.

AND THEN I CAN GO ON TO TALK MORE ABOUT THE FAMILY PLAN, WHICH -- >> Bonnie: PLEASE DO.

AND ALSO, IF YOU COULD ADD IN THERE, PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS ALREADY SORT OF MADE, YOU KNOW, RESPONDED TO THE POSSIBILITY THAT THE SENATE, NOT SO MUCH THE HOUSE, BUT THE SENATE PROBABLY WON'T PASS HIS ENTIRE BUDGET, AS HE PUT IT FORWARD.

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO TO TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PARTS AFFECTING WOMEN AND COMMUNITIES OF COLOR ARE AT LEAST TAKEN OFF INTO PACKAGES THAT THE SENATE WILL APPROVE, YOU KNOW, PARTS OF IT THAT THE SENATE WILL APPROVE?

>> Jennifer: WELL, THIS EVENT CAN JUMP IN TOO, BUT AS I SAID, I MEAN, THESE ARE TREMENDOUSLY POPULAR.

THE REASON THEY ARE TREMENDOUSLY POPULAR WITH BOTH REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, BY THE WAY, I WOULD SAY THESE ARE INCREDIBLY BIPARTISAN PROPOSALS, WHETHER THAT'S INVESTMENTS IN CHILDCARE, WILL THAT INVESTMENTS IN THE CHILD TAX CREDIT, WHETHER THAT'S INVESTMENTS IN PAID FAMILY AND MEDICAL LEAVE.

YOU KNOW, AMERICANS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, WHETHER THEY ARE REPUBLICANS, DEMOCRATS, INDEPENDENTS, THEY SEE THE NEED FOR THIS.

THEY HAVE LONG ACTUALLY SEEN THE NEED FOR THESE POLICIES, BUT THEY SEE IT EVEN MORE AFTER COVID.

AND SO, AS A RESULT, THEY ARE INCREDIBLY NEEDED, WANTED, AND SEEN AS VITAL TO ECONOMIC RECOVERY, BOTH FOR INDIVIDUAL FAMILIES BUT ALSO MORE GENERALLY.

>> Julissa: LET ME JUST ADD THAT PART OF THE AMERICAN FAMILIES PLAN OR ESSENTIAL OR SIGNIFICANT PIECE OF IT IS THE EXPANSION OF WHAT IS CONCEIVED AS UNIVERSAL EDUCATION.

AND, YOU KNOW, FROM THE PRE-K, EARLY YEARS, TO UNIVERSAL COMMUNITY COLLEGE AND THE ACCESS TO COMMUNITY COLLEGE BY, BY ADULTS OR YOUNG ADULTS OR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO RETOOL THEMSELVES SO THEY CAN BE MORE COMPETITIVE IN THEIR -- IN THE JOB MARKET, THOSE THINGS ARE INCREDIBLY POPULAR.

THIS IDEA THAT WE NEED, WE NEED MORE EDUCATION AND WE NEED TO EXPAND ACCESS TO EDUCATION TO ALL PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, ACCESSIBLE, UNIVERSAL, FREE UNIVERSITY, IN EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION, AND THE FACT IS THAT WE HAVEN'T RECONSIDERED WHAT IS NECESSARY FOR US TO BE COMPETITIVE, EDUCATED POPULATION FOR OVER -- FOR CLOSE -- FOR DECADES, CLOSE TO 100 YEARS.

AND WE ARE NOT -- WE CANNOT KEEP OUR COMPETITIVENESS IF WE DO NOT PRECONCEIVE OF WHAT WE NEED TO BE REALLY EDUCATED POPULATION.

AND THIS IS I THINK THE FUNDAMENTAL, YOU KNOW, KIND OF ISSUE FOR OUR, FOR OUR FUTURE AS A COUNTRY AND AS A NATION, AND THAT IS A SIGNIFICANT PIECE OF THE AMERICAN FAMILIES PLAN.

AND I THINK PEOPLE NEED TO PROCESS AND UNDERSTAND IT, THAT WHILE THE REST OF THE WORLD IS MOVING AHEAD WITH TRAINING THEIR WORKERS AND THEIR YOUNG PEOPLE AND GIVING THEM ACCESS AND ALLOWING YOUNG CHILDREN TO START LEARNING EARLIER, WE ARE BEHIND.

>> Bonnie: ONE QUICK QUESTION: I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S POSSIBLE TO TEASE THESE DATA OUT, BECAUSE OF COVID AND THE FACT THAT COVID STRUCK IN THE LAST YEAR OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, BUT DID PRESIDENT TRUMP DO ANY DAMAGE TO WOMEN'S RIGHTS, TO WOMEN'S ECONOMIC RIGHTS IN THIS COUNTRY?

>> Jennifer: LET'S JUST START WITH A PANDEMIC.

I THINK IF WE HAD A COMPETENT GOVERNMENT IN CHARGE, WE WOULD'VE SEEN A LOT LESS DAMAGE CAUSED BY THE PANDEMIC ALONE.

YOU KNOW, IF YOU THINK ABOUT JUST THE AMOUNT THAT WAS IGNORED, THE INCOMPETENCE IN GETTING VACCINES OUT, REALLY FROM BEGINNING TO END, SO I WOULD JUST STOP THERE, BECAUSE I WOULD SAY THAT THAT HAS DEVASTATING COMP THE COURSES FOR WOMEN, REGARDLESS OF, YOU KNOW, THE REST OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S POLICIES.

BUT I THINK REALLY FROM BEGINNING TO END, THERE WAS -- THERE WAS SO MUCH DONE THAT HAD DEVASTATING CONSEQUENCES FOR WOMEN AND FOR FAMILIES AND FOR ECONOMY GLOBALLY.

YOU KNOW, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WITHDREW FUNDING FOR FAMILY PLANNING, FOR EDUCATION AROUND THE GLOBE.

AND JUST TO GO BACK FOR ONE SECOND TO PAY EQUITY, RAISE TO THE PAY GAP, YOU RAISED A REALLY GOOD QUESTION, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE FUNDAMENTALLY, THE JOBS PLAN, THE MAJOR FAMILY PLAN, THESE ARE MAJOR INVESTMENTS, YOU KNOW, SORT OF ONCE-IN-A-LIFETIME INVESTMENTS.

BUT WOULD ALSO REDOING, CAN I WOULD SAY THE OTHER THING WE ARE REALLY FOCUSED ON AND RELATED DISCLOSING THAT PAY GAP THAT YOU HAD RAISED.

YOU KNOW, WE THINK ABOUT THE PAY GAP, THEY ARE REALLY THREE PARTS OF IT: ONE PART OF IT IS PURE DISCRIMINATION.

YOU KNOW, YOU ARE DOING AS A WOMAN THE SAME JOB AS A MAN IS DOING IN YOUR GETTING PAID LESS AND THERE ARE STEPS THAT WE CAN TAKE INCLUDING PASSING THE PAYCHECK FAIRNESS ACT, WHICH THE PRESIDENT HAS CALLED FOR, TO ACTUALLY ADDRESS THAT OUTRIGHT DISCRIMINATION.

BUT BILLY, THE OTHER TWO PIECES OF THE PAY GAP ARE ADDRESSED IN THE FAMILIES PLAN AND IN THE JOBS PLAN, AND THOSE ARE, NUMBER ONE, THE JOBS THAT WOMEN DO, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE REFER TO AS OCCUPATIONAL SEGREGATION, WOMEN ARE IN JOBS THAT GET PAID LESS, WHETHER THAT'S CHILDCARE OR HOME HEALTH CARE, NURSING.

AND SO PART OF WHAT WE'RE DOING IS MAKING INVESTMENT NOT ONLY IN THOSE JOBS, BUT ALSO GIVING WOMEN ACCESS TO JOB OPPORTUNITIES THAT THEY'VE HISTORICALLY BEEN EXCLUDED FROM.

AND AGAIN, EVERYTHING THAT I SAID WHEN I SAID WOMEN REALLY MORE AND MORE TRULY WOMEN OF COLOR, SO ENSURING THAT WOMEN OF COLOR HAVE ACCESS TO SOME JOBS AS WE BUILD THIS CAMINO, 21ST CENTURY GREEN, DREAM JOB ECONOMY.

YOU KNOW, ALL SORTS OF JOBS.

HE VICE PRESIDENT SAID RECENTLY, YOU KNOW, HARD HAT HARD HATS ARE UNISEX.

AS WE THINK ABOUT INFRASTRUCTURE, WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT THE GENDER PART OF THAT AS WELL.

NONETHELESS PIECES CAREGIVING RESPONSIBILITIES.

WOMEN, IN AND OUT OF THE WORKFORCE AND THAT ADDS UP TO LESS PAY OVER THE COURSE OF THEIR CAREERS, LESS RETIREMENT SECURITY, AND THAT COSTS WOMEN, COSTS THEIR FAMILIES AND IT COSTS THE ECONOMY A LOT OF MONEY.

SO, AGAIN, AS WE ADDRESS THINGS LIKE CHILDCARE AND PAID FAMILY AND MEDICAL LEAVE THAT'S REALLY PART OF ADDRESSING THE PAY GAP.

>> Julissa: THERE ARE STRUCTURAL ISSUES OF POLICY AND IMPLEMENTATION AND ADVOCACY AND KIND OF HOLISTIC APPROACH TO TACKLING THE STRUCTURAL HISTORIC PROBLEMS THAT ONLY PROOF THE CORE OF GOVERNMENT IN A HOLISTIC, BROAD ADMINISTRATIVE -- ADMINISTRATION POLICY WE CAN ADDRESS.

IN THIS PRESIDENT AND PRESIDENT BIDEN IS LOOKING AT IT IN THAT WAY.

AND ITS MUCH MORE INTEGRATED, HOLISTIC, DIVERSE THAN JUST A SPECIFIC LEGISLATION FOCUS ON WORKING ON THE HISTORIC AND STRUCTURAL ISSUES, BUT THE INVESTMENTS THAT NEED TO BE MADE TO ENSURE THAT THERE IS SYSTEM SYSTEMATIC AND LONG TERM PROGRESS IN TERMS OF JOB CREATION AND EQUAL TREATMENT, AND EQUAL OPPORTUNITY FOR WOMEN, ESPECIALLY WOMEN OF COLOR.

>> Bonnie: AND THANK YOU SO MUCH, LADIES.

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