NOW A DIVIDE CONGRESS MUST DELIVER THE GOODS.

OF COURSE THE COST OF LIVING IMPACTS EVERYONE DIFFERENTLY BASED ON SALARY, INHERITANCE, CIRCUMSTANCE.

YET THE FEELING OF ECONOMIC ANXIETY IS A COMMON THREAD ACROSS THE SPECTRUM.

THAT'S WHAT OUR NEXT GUEST MONA CHALABI IS TELLING HARI SREENIVASAN NOW.

>> CHRISTIANE, THANKS.

MONA CHALABI, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU WROTE A BOOK RECENTLY CALLED TEN LIVES: HOW WHAT WE HAVE SHAPES WHO WE ARE".

AND YOU BROKE THESE SORT OF TEN CHARACTERS THAT YOU FOLLOW ACROSS THE ECONOMIC SPECTRUM INTO THESE DIFFERENT DECILES.

HOW DID YOU ORGANIZE THE PEOPLE IN THE FIRST PLACE?

>> I KNEW THAT I WANTED TO WRITE A BOOK THAT WASN'T JUST FOCUSED ON THE BILLIONAIRE CLASS.

SO MY PITCH TO MY EDITOR WAS TO FIND SOMETHING IN THE RICHEST 10% OF INCOMES IN THE U. S. , THEN THE NEXT 10%, AND THEN THE NEXT 10%.

AND I FOUND TEN INDIVIDUALS FROM EACH OF THOSE BRACKETS.

I KNEW THAT I WANTED TO SPEAK TO SOMEBODY WHO WAS WORKING AT AN AMAZON FACILITY.

I KNEW I WANTED TO SPEAK TO SOMEBODY WHO WAS NAVIGATING SURROGACY.

I KNEW I WANTED TO SPEAK TO A MILITARY VETERAN.

SO IT WAS VERY, VERY COMPLICATED TO FIND PEOPLE WHO WOULD NOT ONLY KIND OF FULFILL THOSE CRITERIA, BUT WHO WOULD ALSO BE INCREDIBLY FORTHCOMING ABOUT THEIR FINANCIAL CIRCUMSTANCES.

>> SO MUCH OF YOUR BOOK ALSO INCLUDES ILLUSTRATIONS.

AND I WANT TO POINT OUT, THESE MAKE --FOR ME, IT MADE SO MUCH OF THIS FUN TO READ, BUT ALSO EASY TO UNDERSTAND SOMETIMES.

AND YOU'VE GOT ILLUSTRATIONS OF STUDENTS AT A SCHOOL, PATIENTS AT A HOSPITAL, PRISONERS IN THE CAFETERIA.

WHY DO YOU INCLUDE THIS?

>> I THINK A LOT OF STATISTICS AND A LOT OF DATA IS COMMUNICATED IN THIS WAY THAT IS VERY, VERY INACCESSIBLE.

AND THAT'S TROUBLING TO ME BECAUSE IT MEANS THE PEOPLE REPRESENTED IN THESE CHARTS RARELY GET TO SEE THEM.

SO I DRAW THESE KIND OF WEIRD DRAWINGS THAT LOOK LIKE THEY COULD HAVE BEEN DONE BY A CHILD THAT HOPEFULLY MAKE THE INFORMATION A BIT MORE ACCESSIBLE.

>> ONE THING THAT YOU DID IS INTERESTING.

AND I THINK IT'S ALSO THE CASE WITH MOST PEOPLE IS YOU JUST ASK THEM WHERE THEY THINK THEY FALL ON THIS KIND OF LADDER OF INCOME.

WHAT DID YOU FIND?

>> I FOUND A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T REALLY KNOW WHERE THEY SIT ON THE INCOME LADDER.

YOU SEE THIS IN SURVEY DATA, RIGHT, THAT AMERICANS TEND TO PILE INTO THIS LABEL OF MIDDLE CLASS REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEIR ECONOMIC CIRCUMSTANCES ARE.

WHAT I FOUND IS PEOPLE WHO TENDED TO BE AT THE UPPER END OF THE LADDER WOULD UNDERESTIMATE JUST HOW MUCH WEALTH THEY HAD, AND PEOPLE WHO WERE RIGHT AT THE BOTTOM WOULD OVERESTIMATE THEIR WEALTH.

>> LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SOME OF THESE CHARACTERS THAT YOU FOUND.

ONE THAT I WANT TO DIVE IN TO IS CHRISTINA.

SHE IS A SINGLE MOTHER MAKING $30,000 A YEAR.

AND SHE BECOMES A SURROGATE TO HELP SUPPORT HER OWN CHILD.

TELL US WHAT YOU LEARNED NOT JUST ABOUT SURROGACY, ABOUT JUST LIFE AT THIS DECILE.

>> SO CHRISTINA WAS SOMEBODY WHO IS IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS INCOME LADDER.

AND I KNEW THAT I WANTED TO FIND SOMEBODY WHO WAS GOING THROUGH SURROGACY, BECAUSE I THOUGHT THERE WAS SOMETHING REALLY FASCINATING ABOUT THIS IDEA OF EARNING MONEY BY RISKING YOUR BODY.

AND OBVIOUSLY PEOPLE DO THIS IN ALL KINDS OF JOBS ACROSS THE U. S. , CONSTRUCTION WORKERS ARE THE ONES THAT IMMEDIATELY COME TO MIND.

BUT I THOUGHT THERE WOULD BE SOMETHING MORE EMOTIONALLY COMPLEX ABOUT SURROGACY, AND CHRISTINA DISABUSED ME OF THAT IDEA.

SHE MADE IT CLEAR TO ME THERE WAS NO EMOTIONAL AGONY IN HANDING OVER A BABY AFTER SHE HAD GIVEN BIRTH.

THIS WAS JUST A WAY OF EARNING MONEY FOR HER IN ORDER TO, AS YOU SAY, SUPPORT HER OWN CHILD.

I THINK I WAS QUITE SHOCKED ACTUALLY ABOUT HOW MUCH MONEY SHE MADE IN DOING THIS.

I THINK SHE MADE ABOUT $50,000 TOTAL.

AND AGAIN, IT WAS A VERY, VERY DIFFICULT PROCESS TO GO THROUGH PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY.

>> YEAH.

>> AND SHE SPENT ALL OF THE MONEY SHE MADE ACTUALLY ON A PRIVATE DAY CARE FOR HER DAUGHTER SO HER DAUGHTER COULD HAVE THE BEST START IN LIFE.

>> YOU'RE RIGHT IN THERE THAT LIKE MOST CAREGIVERS, CHRISTINA FACED THREE OPTIONS.

PAY FOR CARE, FIND SOMEONE WHO WILL DO IT FOR FREE, OR DO IT YOURSELF.

EACH AVENUE LOOKED UNDESIRABLE OR UNVIABLE TO SOME EXTENT.

JUST THE COST OF CHILD CARE AND CERTAINLY BEING A SINGLE MOM, THE STRAIN IS TREMENDOUS.

THE FACT THAT IT REALLY I GUESS SHOULDN'T SURPRISE US THAT SOMEBODY WOULD CHOOSE THIS ROUTE BECAUSE OF THE ECONOMIC WINDFALL.

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK THE OTHER THING THAT THE BOOK DOES IS KIND OF COMPLICATE THIS NOTION OF WHAT IS ENOUGH MONEY TO FEEL SECURE IN THE U. S. , AND WHO EXACTLY IS WORKING CLASS.

WHEN I STARTED OUT WRITING, THIS I PITCHED TO THE PUBLISHER THAT I WANTED TO COME UP WITH ONE FIGURE, ONE DOLLARS AND CENTS FIGURE OF HOW MUCH MONEY YOU NEED TO BE OKAY, TO BE FINANCIALLY SAFE IN THIS COUNTRY.

AND PEOPLE LIKE CHRISTINA CONSTANTLY COMPLICATED THAT FOR ME.

I WASN'T ABLE TO COME UP WITH THE NUMBER BECAUSE BEING A CAREGIVER WITH A CHILD WHO REQUIRES CARE MEANS THAT NUMBER BECOMES VERY COMPLICATED VERY QUICKLY.

YOU CAN HAVE A RELATIVELY HIGH BANK BALANCE AND STILL BE GENUINELY FINANCIALLY PRECARIOUS IN THIS COUNTRY.

>> THERE USED TO BE A STATISTIC A WHILE BACK SAYING EVERYTHING ABOVE $75,000 INCREMENTAL HAPPINESS THAT YOU GAIN IS LESS AND LESS PAST THIS NUMBER.

IT SEEMS VARIABLE WHETHER YOU HAVE ELDERLY PEOPLE IN YOUR HOME THAT YOU NEED TO CARE FOR OR WHETHER YOU HAVE YOUNG CHILDREN YOU NEED TO CARE FOR OR HOW SATISFIED YOU ARE IN THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.

>> I HEARD SOME VERSION OF FROM THE PEOPLE I SPOKE TO.

BUT IT WAS BIT MORE COMPLICATED.

I FOUND IT WASN'T NECESSARILY HAPPINESS VERSUS SADNESS.

IT WAS ANXIETY.

AND EVERYONE THAT I SPOKE TO WAS ANXIOUS ABOUT THEIR FINANCIAL SITUATION, INCLUDING THE GUY WHO I SPOKE TO WHO WAS IN THE TOP INCOME BRACKET.

HE FELT THAT HE JUST DIDN'T NECESSARILY HAVE ENOUGH TO MAINTAIN THE KIND OF LIFESTYLE THAT HE WANTED.

AND AGAIN, THIS IS PARTLY BECAUSE EVERYONE I SPOKE TO EXPERIENCED SOME KIND OF ECONOMIC SHOCK.

SO FOR HIM, HE WENT THROUGH A DIVORCE THAT HE DIDN'T NECESSARILY SEE COMING.

AND THAT MEANT THAT HIS FINANCIAL SITUATION RADICALLY CHANGED.

HOWEVER, IT'S A REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT MESSAGE OF THE BOOK THAT JUST BECAUSE EVERYBODY FEELS ANXIOUS, IT'S NOT THIS IDEA THAT WE'RE ALL IN IT TOGETHER.

I WANT TO BE REALLY, REALLY CLEAR THAT THAT INDIVIDUAL WHO IS MAKING $550,000 A YEAR FACES COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SET OF STRUGGLES THAN THE PERSON I SPOKE WHO IS MAKING $25,000 A YEAR.

BUT THE FACT THAT EVERYONE FEELS ANXIOUS SHOWS US THAT SOMETHING IS BROKEN.

>> ANOTHER CHARACTER THAT YOU SPOKE, TO TIFFANY, SHE EARNS ABOUT A THOUSAND DOLLARS A MONTH.

OWNS HER HOME AND LAND.

AND I GUESS HOW CAN SOMEONE WHO IS IN THE POOREST DECILE OF YOUR LADDER BE A LAND OWNER?

WHAT DOES THAT TELL US KIND OF ABOUT INCOME VERSUS SFWHELT -- WEALTH?

>> SO TIFFANY IS A REAL OUTLIER.

I WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR.

SHE CAME TO OWN HER HOME BECAUSE A NONPROFIT GAVE TO IT HER FOR THE PRICE OF 1 CENT, I THINK.

THERE HAD TO BE SOME KIND OF FINANCIAL EXCHANGE IN ORDER TO PUT THE HOUSE IN HER NAME.

AND AS YOU SAY, PART OF THE TAKEAWAY FROM TIFFANY'S STORY IS INCOME ONLY TELLS YOU A FRAXZ OF THE --FRACTION OF THE STORY.

WEALTH IS CRITICAL FOR TELLING SOMEONE'S FINANCIAL WEALTH.

IT'S REALLY NOT THE INDIVIDUAL WEALTH, IT'S ABOUT HOUSEHOLD WEALTH.

SO IT MATTERS WHO YOU GET TO TURN TO WHEN TIMES GET HARD.

I WOULD ARGUE THAT VERY, VERY, VERY FEW PEOPLE WHO CALL THEMSELVES BROKE HAVE A RIGHT TO DO SO IF THEY HAVE WEALTHY PARENTS.

AGAIN, HAVING PEOPLE THAT YOU CAN LEAN ON IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

>> SO I MEAN, REALLY, THAT KIND OF GETS INTO THE QUESTION WHO IS EARNING AND WHAT IS THE IDEA OF EARNING VERSUS INHERITING?

>> YES.

INHERITANCE IS PROBABLY THE BIGGEST FACTOR THAT DETERMINES ECONOMIC INEQUALITY IN THIS COUNTRY.

IN TERMS OF INTERGENERATION CONTINUITY.

THE MOST RADICAL THING WE CAN DO TO ADDRESS INEQUALITY IN TERMS OF AN OVERNIGHT POLICY WOULD BE TO POTENTIALLY INSTIGATE A 100% INHERITANCE TAX.

AND THAT WOULD BE THE MOST UNPOPULAR POLICY THAT COULD EVER, EVER BE INSTIGATED.

WE SEE THAT YES, A HUGE PROBLEM IS OF COURSE THAT PEOPLE'S INCOMES AREN'T BEING TAXED.

BUT ANOTHER MASSIVE PROBLEM IS THAT THESE FAMILIES INHERIT HUGE, HUGE, HUGE AMOUNTS OF WEALTH FROM THEIR PARENTS, FROM THEIR GRANDPARENTS, FROM THEIR GREAT GRANDPARENTS.

SO, YEAH, I REALLY WANTED TO INVESTIGATE THAT IN THE BOOK.

AND WHAT YOU SEE, AGAIN, IS THE PEOPLE WHO TEND TO INHERIT WEALTH OVERWHELMINGLY ARE WHITE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY AND OVERWHELMINGLY THEY ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE ALREADY WEALTHY.

SO IT JUST KEEPS WEALTH IN THE HANDS OF THOSE WHO ALREADY HAVE IT.

>> YOU ALSO REALLY POINT OUT SOMETHING THAT I HADN'T THOUGHT OF WHICH IS ONLY IN 16% OF CASES IS THE WIFE THE SOLE PRIMARY OWNER OF A HOUSEHOLD.

SO IN HETEROSEXUAL MARRIAGES, IF THE HUSBAND IS EITHER THE SOLE OR PRIMARY BREADWINNER, WHAT DOES THAT DO TO THE STRUCTURE OF HOW A HOUSEHOLD FUNCTIONS?

AND WHY DOES IT MATTER?

>> IT REALLY MATTERS BECAUSE IT AFFECTS WOMEN'S FINANCIAL INDEPENDENCE.

SOMEBODY THAT I SPOKE TO IN THE BOOK, ACTUALLY, SHE WAS EARNING A PRETTY ROBUST INCOME OF ABOUT $150,000, BUT IT WAS HER HUSBAND WHO WAS VERY, VERY WEALTHY.

AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS WHEN SHE IS CONTEMPLATING DIVORCE, SHE IS FACING A VERY DIFFERENT SET OF ECONOMIC QUESTIONS.

IT MAKES IT MUCH HARDER ACTUALLY FOR WOMEN TO LEAVE MARRIAGES EVEN WHEN THEY'RE UNHAPPY, EVEN WHEN THOSE MARRIAGES ARE ABUSIVE.

SO WHAT YOU SEE IN THE RESEARCH ACTUALLY IS THAT THERE WAS ONE STUDY THAT I CITED THAT FOLLOWED THOUSANDS OF COUPLES.

AND IT FOUND THAT AFTER DIVORCE, WOMEN ARE MUCH MORE LIKELY THAN THEIR MALE PARTNERS TO EXPERIENCE POVERTY.

HOWEVER, I ALSO FOUND THAT MEN ARE MUCH MORE LIKELY THAN THEIR FEMALE PARTNERS TO EXPERIENCE LONELINESS AFTER A DIVORCE, AND THAT MANY OF THE WOMEN EMOTIONALLY ARE HAPPIER AFTER LEAVING THEIR PARTNERS, EVEN THOUGH THE ECONOMIC CIRCUMSTANCES HAVE DETERIORATED.

>> YOU'VE GOT A CHART IN HERE THAT IS ALMOST LIKE A MIRROR OF WHERE IS THE AMERICAN DREAM TODAY.

AND IT SHOWS THAT ABOUT 90% OF AMERICANS BORN IN 1940 EARNED MORE THAN THEIR PARENTS, BUT ONLY ABOUT HALF THOSE BORN AROUND 1980 DID.

SO WHAT DOES THAT TELL US?

AND ESPECIALLY NOW, WHERE WE HAVE YOUNG PEOPLE COMING OUT OF COLLEGE FACING VERY DIM PROSPECTS OF WHERE THEIR OWN CAREERS AND HOW LUCRATIVE THEY CAN BE.

>> I MEAN, THIS COUNTRY WAS NEVER A MERITOCRACY, AS YOU KNOW.

BUT I THINK THE FANTASY OF UPWARD MOBILITY IS BECOMING LESS AND LESS LIKELY.

AND YOU'RE SEEING THIS IN POLLING DATA AMONG YOUNGER PEOPLE.

THEY ARE LESS INVESTED IN THIS FANTASY OF HOME OWNERSHIP.

IT SEEPS INTO EVERY SINGLE ASPECTS OF THEIR LIVES.

THEY'RE VERY CLEAR SIGHTED ABOUT THE IMPACT OF UPWARD MOBILITY.

AND EVEN AGAIN TO GO BACK TO RELATIONSHIPS TRANSLATES TO THEIR IDEA OF ROMANCE.

BOOMERS ARE LESS LIKELY TO SAY YOU SHOULD PICK A PARTNER BASED ON THEIR FINANCIAL STATUS THAN GEN Z. GEN Z ARE BEING VERY, VERY PRAGMATIC ABOUT HOW THEY ARE GOING TO SURVIVE, HOW THEY ARE GOING TO LIVE THEIR LIVES GIVEN HOW TOUGH THINGS ARE FOR THEM ECONOMICALLY.

>> YOU ALSO POINT OUT WHEN, FOR EXAMPLE, AS YOU CLIMB UP THIS LADDER.

WE HAVE RIGHT NOW A TENDENCY TO FOCUS MOST OF OUR INEQUALITY CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THE UBER RICH.

BUT YOU'RE ALSO SHOWING THAT BY THE DATA THAT THE MORE MONEY YOU MAKE, THE MORE MONEY YOU HIDE.

EXPLAIN THAT.

>> YEAH.

WHAT WE SEE IS THAT THE RATES OF TAX EVASION INCREASE AS YOU GO UP THE INCOME LADDER.

IN A WAY, THAT'S KIND OF UNSURPRISING I GUESS.

WE KIND OF CULTURALLY WE KNOW THAT RICH PEOPLE TEND TO BE A BIT DUPLICITOUS WHEN IT COMES TO THEIR MONEY.

BUT IT ALSO REQUIRES RESOURCES TO EFFECTIVELY HIDE YOUR MONEY.

YOU NEED LIKE A GREAT ACCOUNTANT.

YOU NEED INFORMATION THAT WORKS TO KNOW WHERE IN THE CAYMEN ISLANDS YOU SHOULD BE INVESTING.

AND THAT INFORMATION THAT YOU LOWER DOWN THE INCOME LADDER SIMPLY DON'T KNOW.

>> WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS CONVERSATION THAT YOU'RE HAVING, IT'S REALLY NOT JUST ABOUT IDENTITY IN TERMS OF RACE, WHICH OFTEN IS WHAT AMERICANS FOCUS ON, BUT REALLY ALSO ABOUT CLASS.

AND WHY IS IT IMPORTANT TO BE MORE EXPLICIT ABOUT THAT AND TO BE SPEAKING MORE OPENLY ABOUT MONEY?

>> YEAH.

I MEAN, I APPRECIATE THE WAY THAT THE U. S. HAS HAD --YOU COULD ARGUE HOW EFFECTIVE THAT CONVERSATION HAS BEEN.

BUT I WOULD SAY THE U. S. IS FAR MORE ARTICULATE THAN THE UK WHICH IS WHERE I GREW UP WHEN IT COMES TO RACISM.

IT'S PART OF WHY I MOVED HERE.

BRITISH PEOPLE ARE VERY, VERY UNCOMFORTABLE TALKING ABOUT RACE.

BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS QUITE SHOCKING COMING HERE IS PEOPLE WERE FAR LESS COMFORTABLE TALKING ABOUT CLASS.

I THINK THAT DISCOMFORT HAS HELPED TO UPHOLD THE INEQUALITY THAT WE SEE.

THE FACT THAT PEOPLE ARE BEING SO DISCREET THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT MONEY.

I THINK THAT EVEN IF PEOPLE ARE INTELLECTUALLY DIVESTED FROM THE AMERICAN DREAM, EVEN IF PEOPLE KNOW THIS FANTASY OF UPWARD MOBILITY ISN'T REALLY PLAYING ITSELF OUT, I THINK THERE IS STILL A EMOTIONAL AND PSYCHOLOGICAL ATTACHMENTS TO THAT IDEA.

I THINK MANY PEOPLE STILL WANT TO BELIEVE IF THEY JUST WORK HARD ENOUGH, THEY CAN RADICALLY IMPROVE THEIR LIVES.

I WOULD ARGUE THAT THE AMERICAN DREAM IS A MUCH MORE ALIVE FANTASY IN THE MINDS OF MEN THAN WOMEN.

AND I WOULD ARGUE PROBABLY IN THE MINDS OF WHITE PEOPLE MORE THAN PEOPLE OF COLOR, FOR WHOM THIS IDEA OF UPWARD MOBILITY HAS BEEN REVEALED TO BE A MYTH LONG, LONG AGO.

>> A DIFFERENT FORM OF THE INEQUALITY CONVERSATION HAS REALLY PLAYED ITSELF OUT IN TERMS OF THIS MIDTERM ELECTION.

AND THE WORD HAS BEEN "AFFORDABILITY," RIGHT.

SO MANY PEOPLE, EXIT POLLS I THINK SAID 80% OF VOTERS SAID THEY WERE WORRIED ABOUT THE PRICE OF GAS AND GROCERIES AND HEALTH CARE.

AND 70% SAID THAT THE ECONOMIC SYSTEM FAVORS THE WEALTHY.

AND I WONDER.

YOU WERE WRITING AND RESEARCHING THIS BOOK WELL BEFORE THE MIDTERMS, WELL BEFORE THIS.

DID YOU FIND THAT KIND OF ANXIETY AS YOU WENT UP AND DOWN IN THESE CATEGORIES OF WEALTH?

>> WHAT WAS REALLY STRIKING WAS THAT IT WAS NOT JUST THE POOREST OF THE POOR THAT WERE WORRIED ABOUT THE COST OF LIVING.

IT WAS ALSO PEOPLE WHO WERE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE.

I REMEMBER SPEAKING TO SOMEBODY WHO I BELIEVE WAS IN LIKE THE FOURTH DECILE WHO WAS TELLING ME THAT SHE KEEP S HUNTING TO SAVE MONEY THAT WAS STRIKING TO ME.

REALLY HAVING TO CHANGE THE WAY YOU'RE EATING JUST TO SAVE A FEW DOLLARS EACH WEEK.

AND I'M GLAD THAT YOU MENTIONED THE RECENT MIDTERM RESULTS.

I'VE BEEN SLIGHTLY FRUSTRATED BY SOME OF THE COVERAGE AND THE WAY IT'S BEING DESCRIBED OVER AND OVER AGAIN AS A BLUE WAVE.

AND I'M NOT SURE HOW MUCH OF THIS IS REALLY A WIN FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

I WOULD ARGUE THAT MANY OF THE PEOPLE WHO WERE VOTING IN THIS NOVEMBER'S ELECTIONS WERE REALLY, REALLY VOTING FOR JUST THE LEFT.

THEY WERE VOTING FOR A DIFFERENT SET OF POLITICS TO ADDRESS AFFORDABILITY.

THEY'VE BECOME DISILLUSIONED THAT THE RIGHT CAN ADDRESS THAT I DON'T THINK IT'S NECESSARILY FAITH IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY PER SE.

THEY WERE VOTING FOR INDIVIDUAL CANDIDATES WHO WERE TELLING THEM THAT SOCIALIST POLICIES CAN BETTER ADDRESS THEIR NEEDS RIGHT NOW.

AND I THINK THAT IS ACTUALLY A FAR MORE AND SURPRISING SHIFT IN AMERICAN POLITICS THAN ANOTHER SWING OF THE PENDULUM TOWARDS THE DEMOCRATS.

>> SO WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT VOTERS SHOULD BE LOOKING FOR?

WHAT WOULD ACTUALLY MAKE PEOPLE MORE SECURE IN THEIR --WITH THEIR ECONOMIC ANXIETY?

>> I GENUINELY THINK --IT'S SO SIMPLE, BUT IT IS JUST MORE TAXATION OF THE WEALTHY AND BETTER FUNDING OF GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS.

I REALLY BELIEVE THAT.

YOU KNOW, I THOUGHT ABOUT OTHER MODELS OF ECONOMIC SECURITY IN THE BOOK.

I LOOKED BRIEFLY AT PHILANTHROPY, COMMUNITY SUPPORT.

NONE OF THOSE REALLY STACK UP IN THE SAME WAY.

I DON'T WANT TO LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE RICH PEOPLE GET TO DECIDE EXACTLY WHICH PROJECTS GET FUNDED.

LISTEN, I LOVE THE BALLET, BUT I DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE THE SAME INTEREST AS THE SUPER RICH IN THIS COUNTRY AND THE THINGS THAT THEY CARE ABOUT.

AND SIMILARLY, AS I MENTIONED, THIS IDEA OF COMMUNITY-BASED SUPPORT ONLY WORKS IF COMMUNITIES ARE FUNDAMENTALLY EQUAL IN THIS COUNTRY.

WHAT WE'VE SEEN IS HISTORIC OPPRESSION MEANS DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES HAVE DIFFERENT RESOURCES AVAILABLE TO THEM.

AND THE ONLY INSTITUTION THAT IS POSITIONED TO HAVE THIS TRULY BIRD'S- EYE VIEW ON THE NEEDS OF THE ENTIRE NATION IS THE GOVERNMENT.

>> HOW DO YOU WANT THIS BOOK TO CHANGE PEOPLE'S VIEWS ON HOW THEY LOOK AT THEIR OWN MONEY, THEIR BANK ACCOUNT, THEIR INCOME, THEIR INHERITANCE?

>> YEAH, I WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE A MUCH CLEARER IDEA OF WHERE THEY STAND.

I HOPE THAT THE BOOK FOSTERS SOME CLASS CONSCIOUSNESS AND CLASS SOLIDARITY BY PEOPLE UNDERSTANDING WHERE THEY FIT IN THIS ECONOMIC SYSTEM.

I HOPE THAT, AGAIN, WE HAVE A MORE NUANCED UNDERSTANDING THAN SIMPLY TALKING ABOUT THE 1% AND THE REST OF US, BECAUSE THAT'S A FANTASY.

THAT'S NOT REALLY HOW THIS COUNTRY OPERATES.

>> MONA CHALABI, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU.